Of course you’re one of those reactionary evangelists who’ll claim none of these have anything to do with religion and the people in the region are just puppets waiting for the secularist liberals to pull their strings.

Religion is only the rationalization of universal self-importance and a justification for unjustifiable violence, but the desire for violent domination is always rooted in an intense desire for material security and liberation.

compare it to, say, the Syrian, Yemeni or Sudanese civil wars

And yet they each were still ultimately fighting over the control of land, water, and the material production of their countries. The justification may have been couched in religious symbols and significance, but the outcome was still definitively material.

Edit:

I'll also add - the existence of secularist liberal states investing in the conflict isn't an attempt to frame it as an 'evil secular proxy war', it is to show that secularist liberals have reason to involve themselves even without a religious justification. It's a counterexample to the assertion that this conflict is a religious one: if that were true then it leaves more than half the involved parties without any apparent rational to engage in the bloodshed.

If you believe they’re starving their kids directly then this newspaper is too difficult for you

Of course they're not suggesting they're 'starving their kids directly', but what they are doing is sidelining the colonial power actually responsible for their starvation and instead holding up an inaccurate and bigoted portrayal of their religious practices as a stand-in for Israel's culpability.

To blame Muslims for Israel's sustained genocidal bombardment of innocent Gazans is a level of depraved racist bigotry I honestly never thought I'd witness in my time. The Nazis blamed the Jews for their own extermination, and that is precisely what you are doing here.

This conflict is as related to religion as a doughnut is related to the cultivation of sugar cane. Impossible to exist as it does without it, but could (and probably would) have arisen under different circumstances and with slight differences without it.

Reducing this conflict into its religious factions conveniently ignores the cascading history and various material interests that allied imperial states have within the region. It also happens to be an easy way to ideologically frame the conflict about out-of-touch religious fanatics, even though it never would have happened at this scale or on this timeline without the vested contributions of secular liberal states.

I hope you're not one of those reactionary evangelists who believe the rapture will come once Israel is destroyed and are therefore aroused by the boundless death of innocent people.

Religious fundamentalists do not encourage or instruct fasting during an ongoing famine (not even Islamic ones).

Thinking that they do (and laughing about it) while they starve at the hands of their colonial occupier is honest-to-god nazi-level genocide apologia.

Funny that they're mocking muslims for their faith while they starve during the Israeli-manufactured famine?

It just occurred to me that '[a christian terrorist] threw a stone into a window when he was drunk' appears like a reference to Kristallnacht.... If it is, then holy fuck is that a crazy euphemistic way of recalling one of the most famous antisemitic Nazi riots in history (if you're thinking of Nazi's being motivated by their christian beliefs then why stop at Kristallnacht, why not include the entire Holocaust?). If that isn't a reference to the November Pogroms, then I have absolutely no idea who you're talking about. Either way, you seem to have conveniently left out a couple millennia of violence conducted in the name of Christianity.....

Oh, so now you’re changing what kind of theoretical sanctions you want.

I've not changed anything, except put a finer point on what i've been saying from the outset - that Isreal, the US, and the other genocide collaborators should face justice for the terror and suffering they've caused in Palestine. Whatever sanctions already in place have not changed Israel's ability or motivation to continue their genocide, so more and stronger punitive action is needed. One "official" route - a minimum standard of justice - would be UN sanctions supported and adhered to by western UN member states. The UN's refusal/reluctance to do so is kind of the broader analytical point that I don't feel you're ready to discuss.

The UN has never stood for peace. It has stood for legal means of warfare and applying a coat of paint on bloodshed, so it’s official bloodshed instead of your standard bloodshed.

Finally a point of agreement. The UN and NATO were both created to legitimize the violence and statecraft of western-allied nations against a shared 'enemy'. Perhaps i've been too tongue-in-cheek for you - the sanctions and punitive actions taken by the western world through the UN have always been against the US's preferred enemies, and have always selectively ignored actions taken by the US and others, even when the evidence of war crimes and genocide are overwhelming. And yet it would be foolish to deny that the UN is the only collective body with any real weight, and there are certainly none that stand meaningfully opposed to western hegemony.

It's important context for someone on the left, because to those who stand opposed to western crimes then have no "official" path to justice. You can take from that whatever conclusion you like.

All it requires is for Hamas to declare itself government and surrender.

Look at how selective you're being with your condemnation.

I don’t care about it. Nothing justifies violence. Why do you struggle to comprehend this?

Clearly not "nothing", if you stand in support of Israel's war and occupation of Gaza. There are some forms of violence that you clearly recognize as legitimate. I don't struggle to understand what you've said, I struggle only to show you the contradiction in your omissions.

Oh god forbid I highlight Islamic Terrorism about a conflict between Israel and Islamic Terrorists

A true "neutral" liberal would say that it is a war between jewish terrorists and islamic terrorists. I don't even care that your sympathies lie on one side of the conflict or the other, but I do take issue with your cowardice to acknowledge it. There are no good guys in this conflict, and there's a choice you've made here that is consistent with all of your other comments on the topic that shares a striking resemblance with the sentiment expressed in the cartoon you refuse to acknowledge.

As the moderator of a community nominally dedicated to opposing hate speech, you sure do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to Muslims.

These countries have also sanctioned the US, though not in response to the conflict.

I'll wait for you to tell me which of the sanctions you're referencing prevent the US from conducting business or financial transactions with major trade partners and that have the weight of the UN Security Council behind them, such as the ones for Iran, China, and Russia, and which have the adherence of the UN and its member states.

A council who's mission is to promote world peace through unity should be able to pass sanctions against member states that are egregiously culpable for war crimes against civilian populations and genocide. Yet here we are still waiting

No context justifies calls for violence.

Still waiting for your opinion on the cartoon you decided wasn't worthy of inclusion. I'd settle for your opinion on Islam as a whole, since you seem keen on highlighting islamic terrorism but loath to mention christian, jewish, and secular terrorism.

Should they also get punishment for their crimes against Palestine? Such as Iran aiding Hamas, Houthis and Hezbollah, effectively instigating more war?

They are already being sanctioned for this. Meanwhile, the parties currently committing genocide and all of their collaborators have yet to see any repercussions for their contributions. Hell, as long as we're talking about Iran and the funding of terrorists, would you like to talk about the US funding and providing arms during the Kurdish-genocide? I wonder who (if anyone) was sanctioned for that conflict

Do you believe this is off-topic?

I believe your mention of Iran, China, and Russia is off-topic from the OP, which was about France and the openly racist/islamaphobic cartoon depicting the famine in Gaza. I can only imagine why you might be actively avoiding that topic, even going so far as to clip out the main post and obfuscate the context, including describing the french OP as "anti-Islam".

I can only assume that omission was an innocent mistake and not in any way motivated by a personal bias against Islam.

Holy fuck.

For a second I thought it was just that still image of the thumbnail and I was confused that maybe it was just a really subtle joke I wasn't getting

But that was not subtle

I was just asleep for three and I do not feel well rested.

I honestly cannot tell if that's anti-lib sarcasm or an unironic lib display

Either way it's making me gag

I know ghost has a container deployment and uses activity pub

I do wonder how many within the man/woman responses are trans, too.

Idk if that survey was mainly advertised on lemmy, but i know that at least one instance that did a survey had maybe 2% woman respondents, but more than two thirds of those were transfem.

Either way, a little disconcerting. I'm not sure what to make of that or what (if anything) to do about it

Sorry, maybe I'm unfamiliar: how are they involved in Israel's genocide...? Or is that off-topic?

But funny you should mention three of the most sanctioned countries in the world as examples, because what I'm advocating for is just a bit of consistency

They are reacting to this comic from 'Liberation' newspaper last year about the genocide in Gaza during Ramadan:

The woman in a hijab is slapping the hand of an emaciated Gazan chasing after a rat, presumably to catch and eat it, and saying "Not before sunset"

I italicized something because I believe the west (including France, in this case) does deserve some kind of punishment for their crimes against Palestine. Obviously I don't think countries who had nothing to do with this genocide need be punished, but at this point much of the western world has enabled it either by direct material contribution or by a failure to boycott, divest, or sanction Israel for their crimes.

It's not up to me to decide what that justice is or how it's administered, but I don't think there's any arguing that there shouldn't be some measure of justice for Palestine. Unless you believe Israel has done nothing wrong.....?

This is a fantasy

Yup, that's all we have, because as you alluded to: this is the west's global hegemony, we're just living in it.

Had to go looking, but I found the image this comment is in reaction to.

::: spoiler spoiler

:::

It's a cartoon from "Liberation" newspaper in france, and the caption is "Ramadan in Gaza" (published just after the hunanitarian aid blockade and famine crisis started in Gaza, for which Israel is now being accused as an act of genocide)

The woman in a hijab is slapping the hand of an emaciated Gazan chasing after a rat, presumably to catch and eat it, and saying "Not before sunset"

It's a pretty openly Islamophobic joke about Gazan's starving during the month of Ramadan where muslims traditionally fast from sunrise to sunset.

I don't think it should need to be said, but even orthodox Muslims recognize exceptions to fasting during ramadan for starvation and bodily injury.

I wasn't advocating for anything, I was answering the question about why they were angry with the french.

And what will this justice be?

If it were me, i'd say the west should face international sanction and prosecution in the Hague for all leaders/diplomats accused of willfully collaborating with a genocide. Of course, a western-controlled criminal court would never do such a thing, so I guess all we have is BDS and public protest.

Absolutely not. I'm advocating for justice.